The most significant unanswered question about the 19 fatalities on the 2013 Yarnell Hill Fire is, why did the Granite Mountain Hotshots leave the safety of a previously burned area and walk through unburned brush toward a ranch. Undoubtedly some of the firefighters that were working on the fire heard radio transmissions during which the order to relocate was discussed, but due to lawyering-up and the refusal of the U.S. Forest Service to allow their firefighters to provide information, other firefighters may never know why or by whom that fateful decision was made.
It is possible that a simple device costing less than $200 could have recorded the fireground radio transmissions and this issue could have been settled within hours of the accident. And a lesson may have been learned, preventing other firefighters from making the same mistake.
Cockpit voice recorders in an aircraft capture conversations and radio transmissions, dash cameras in law enforcement vehicles record audio and video, and recently there have been recommendations that every police officer wear a body camera.
One of the recommendations from investigators following the death of Dallas firefighter Stanley Wilson, and earlier than that, Dallas Lt. Todd Krodle, was that on-scene radio transmissions be recorded.
Firefighter Wilson’s widow, Jenny, said she had one simple wish: that fireground radio transmissions be recorded. After the Dallas FD balked at spending the money, FirefighterCloseCalls looked into recording devices. Here is an excerpt from their article:
…Stop the bullsh*t—a system that records repeated or simplex radio transmissions won’t break the City-or most any other jurisdiction. It can be done through a central location or battalion chief buggies can be equipped with them…simple fireground recorders. And you don’t even need to form a committee.
As an example, I searched and found www.FireVideo.net and for much less than $200.00 each, you can have a dash (or rear of command buggy) recorder with audio and video for every buggy-it can record over 10 hours and it automatically turns on.
So let’s just say the “big D” has 9 battalions and a few other senior chiefs/safety officers etc per shift. So, for about $2000.00 total, EVERY on-duty DFR buggy has a working, state of the art recorder. That’s less than it will cost to buy lunch at the next city council meeting. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. That was easy.
Either way, it’s 2015 and it’s ridiculous to not be able to go back and listen to fireground channels-after fires that went well or ones such as this one where Captain Wilson was tragically killed.
Look, if we can go on the Internet and watch Freddie firefighter with his helmet cam stretch a booster line to a raging mulch bed on fire, fireground channels can be recorded right at the buggy. It may cost some a little money, but that’s the price of putting a sign in front of a building and calling it the “FIRE DEPT”.
Recording fireground radio transmissions on a wildland fire is very different from recording those at a structure fire, but that does not mean it is impossible, or that we should throw up our hands and say it can’t be done. Low power direct transmissions from hand held radios do not travel much beyond line of sight, but if there were a few recording devices in vehicles scattered around a fire there is a chance that a key conversation could be recorded that might later lead toward a lesson learned.
It would not be a perfect system. Not every channel would be recorded, and some would be missed. But for less than $200 per Battalion Chief’s vehicle, a National Forest, a state agency, or a county fire department with a heavy wildland responsibility should experiment with a few devices.
I found all of the comments very helpful as I complete by grant applications for some new radios. I see a comment made by Randy Carpadus on April 30, 2015 at 2:39 pm concerning recording being done by each radio.
You must have given them the idea. The new Kenwood NX5300 and TK5330 and 5830 has just what you suggested. The ability to insert a SD card into the radio and record all in coming and out going radio traffic.
This will give us one more tool in preventing future injuries from poor communications.
The technology is there. The agencies just need to figure out how to use it.
Cockpit voice recording has helped a great deal in improving commercial flight safety and flight crew coordination. Fire air operations have made great strides in reducing radio communications clutter of unneeded talk. Reviewing tapes of radio communications can be a very helpful learning tool and provide a record of who said what when. It helps keep things safe, professional, clear and to the point. Cell phones have a option to record, why not radios? For years in law enforcement I taped witness statements and interviews with suspects with a pocket recorder. Kept the problem of “I never said that” from arising.
As an INCM I’ve also wondered why we don’t have radio recording equipment in the Comm Units. I have searched for software which would record radio traffic on my laptop. I’d like to connect the earphone outlet on a B/K radio to the microphone inlet on the LT and then record all the fire’s radio traffic. I’ve found several free programs that could do it but they have two major drawbacks. The first is they do not add a date/time stamp to the recording and another is the programs are not voice activated so the LT is in recording mode all the time which uses too much data space.
Now, if a dispatch center is using a Voice Over Internet Protocol (VOIP) system to operate their radios over the internal computer system they can and should be recording all radio traffic (with date/time stamps) on the computer system.The Forest I retired from used a VOIP system. I could sit at my desk and access the Forest radio system from my workspace. I just needed speakers, a microphone and granted access to the VOIP program added to my PC. I could access the primary Forest channels along with any of the repeaters on the Forest from my office. If I wanted to, I could access a repeater on a District 200 miles away and talk directly to someone in the field on that District. All radio traffic was recorded and saved. Great system!
The VOIP system was set up to cover all the Forest and repeater frequencies but could easily programmed with the NIFC frequencies.
If anyone has found any software that connect’s a LT to a B/K radio that solves the above mentioned problems please post about it here.
Dave
It seems to me I have heard the last few transmissions from Granite Mtn. IIRC someone told them to stop yelling and sounding so frantic because HE had something important to say. I can’t believe his words have not been immortalized as a one of the great failures of wildland firefighting.
Can someone help me out here and point me to where I can listen to that recording as I can’t find it anywhere. Thanks, Bill
Concerning Yarnell Hill, is it likely that orders for GMHS to go to the ranch were sent via cell phone?
Were the cell phone records for all fire line supervisors subpoenaed by the investigators?
you bring up a great point!! In the 2011 death of Caleb Hamm, personal cell phones were used so that everyone would NOT hear he was indeed missing! Had this info gone out sooner, maybe he would still be here with us. There is always the likelihood of those that will use a cell instead……increasing the chance of a death.
just a personal observation…….
If the comm was recorded and everyone was aware that what they said will be available for investigations, would that impact the utility of radio communications?
I spent more than a few hours in commercial airline cockpits and it was obvious everyone thought carefully about what they were going to say since it was going to be recorded.
Might not be a bad thing. Convince some of the folk that it really does mean Push to Talk, rather than Push to Think,
I know there are a few outfits out there ( like cal fire) with there batch of attorney’s that refuse to allow this sort of thing. I see it as another tool. A tool that can be obtained reasonably and can prove a wonderful tool.
Just a point of information, Bill. You stated in your article that the U.S. Forest Service was refusing “to allow their firefighters to provide information.” That is actually not true. Those guys *can* provide information if they want to but my impression is that the lawyers or gossip or whatever have made them nervous enough that they are just as happy not to speak publicly. I am happy to elaborate on this if you would like.
Elizabeth, I would be interested in a further elaboration if you wouldn’t mind.
I may be a little behind in tracking the story over the past few months, so maybe your comments would be helpful in getting caught up to speed.
I see this coming and it’s possible now if the radio makers make a small addition. The concept of something stand-alone in a Chief’s rig is old school. They can be in every portable. I have a 8-10 year old USB micro-recorder that is no larger than a pack of trident gum (almost half of that battery) and holds up to 7-24hrs of non-stop talk (depending on format and recording quality). That one is 4-5 generations out of date so the tech is even better now! The new ones are almost half the size and have almost 100 times the storage so there is no reason they can’t be built in to the radios just as our phones already have voice recording capabilities. All it has to be set to do is record what ever comes out of the radio speaker or into the mike when keyed then be able to be downloaded to a computer if a review is needed. If the recordings aren’t needed then they just get recorded over when the capacity is reached. Think of a firefighter’s version of an aircraft black box.
Recording radio traffic is coming, it’s just a matter of getting the radio manufacturers to offer it.