Long before the P2V fought wildfires, it hunted subs and occasionally took off from a carrier

P2V JETO aircraft carrier
Lockheed P2V Neptune making Jet Assisted Takeoff from the aircraft carrier Franklin D. Roosevelt April, 1949. US Navy photo.

The last of the P2Vs used as air tankers to battle wildfires were operated by Neptune Aviation and retired in October, 2017, but it was designed as a submarine hunter for the U.S. Navy when it entered the fleet in 1947. It detected subs with radar, sonobuoys, and a magnetic anomaly detector. Some models were equipped with twin .50 caliber machine guns in the nose, and most had a forward observation bubble with an observer seat.

As the United States acquired nuclear weapons the Navy wanted the ability to deliver the warheads, which meant an aircraft needed to be small enough to take off from an aircraft carrier and large enough to carry the bulky early models of the bombs. They outfitted a P2V with jet assisted takeoff (JATO) rocket boosters and began tests in 1948.

P2V JATO aircraft carrier
A U.S. Navy Lockheed P2V-3C Neptune launches with “Jet-assisted take-off (JATO)” from the aircraft carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt July 2, 1951. U.S. Navy photo.

The JATO-equipped P2V could not land on the carrier because it was too big and was not reinforced for an arrested landing. Any P2V mission that originated on a carrier would have to either end at a friendly land-based air field or ditch in the sea, hopefully near a Navy vessel.

Other missions the P2V was adapted for included:

  • Gathering of electronic intelligence for the CIA in Europe and mainland China in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Two crashed in South Korea and three were shot down over China, killing all crewmembers.
  • During the Vietnam War the P2V was used by the U.S. Navy as a gunship, an overland reconnaissance and sensor deployment aircraft, and in its traditional role as a maritime patrol aircraft. It also intercepted low-powered tactical voice and morse code radio signals and mapped air defense radar sites.

And don’t forget, it fought fires.

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A day in the Northwest dropping fire retardant from a P2V — pilot’s eye view

view from P2V dropping fire retardant
Screengrab from the video.

This video has been out for a couple of years but check it out if you enjoy a pilot’s eye view from a P2V flying around forest fires a few hundred feet off the ground. If you have a fast internet connection and a medium to large-sized screen, bump up the quality on the video to 4K. It was uploaded to YouTube by Bob Webb in 2016.

Be sure and check out the drop at 10:32.

The last of the working P2V air tankers retired September 30, 2017.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Evan.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

The demise of the Minden Air BAe-146 program

Minden Air Corp aircraft BAe-146 T-46 T-55
Left to right: Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google Street View, April, 2015. Tanker 55 was damaged in 2012 when it landed with only partially lowered landing gear possibly due to a hydraulic system failure.

For more than 15 years Minden Air Corp has been working on the concept of transitioning from their Korean War vintage P2V air tankers to a jet, the BAe-146. They acquired two or three of them and had nearly completed their work on what was going to be Air Tanker 46 when they ran out of money. Problems with hydraulic systems led to landing gear failures on two P2Vs, T-48 and T-55, taking out Minden’s last two operational air tankers, which no doubt affected their incoming revenue stream. Thankfully there were no serious injuries reported in those two accidents, unlike the crash of the company’s T-99 on October 3, 2003 that killed the two pilots, Carl Dolbeare , 54 and John Attardo, 51. A lookout staffing a fire tower saw that P2V fly into a cloud bank as it was preparing to land at San Bernardino. It did not emerge and shortly thereafter they saw what appeared to be smoke at the top of the cloud. The NTSB described it as “controlled flight into mountainous terrain”. The two pilots had a combined total of more than 15,000 flight hours.

In October AvGeek filmed a report about Minden Air Corp at the Minden Airport 45 miles south of Reno, Nevada.

Tim Cristy, Flight Operations for Minden, said in the video when explaining why the conversion of T-46 came to a stop, “We ran out of money. Well, the engineering got expensive as all get-out”.

We attempted to call Mr. Christy and Minden’s CEO, Len Parker, to get more information but the number we had used before no longer works.

The T-46 project had progressed to conducting a grid test, which involves dropping retardant over a grid of more than 3,000 cups on the ground. In the video Mr. Cristy said the test went well. We are not sure if the aircraft ever received a Supplemental Type Certificate from the FAA which is a major hurdle to overcome in addition to approval from the Interagency Airtanker Board. After that they would have had to deal with the bewildering and unpredictable Forest Service contracting system before they ever received a dime from their large monetary investment.

retardant tank inside Minden's T-46 air tanker
The retardant tank inside Minden’s T-46. Screenshot from the AvGeek video.

The video below, published June 17, 2014, shows T-46 making its first test drops of water and retardant.

minden air corp bae-146 p2v air tanker 46
Tanker 46, a second BAe-146, and Tanker 55 (a P2V) at the Minden Air Corp facility at the Minden, NV airport. Photo: Google, June, 2018.

Thanks and a tip of the hat go out to Brian.
Typos or errors, report them HERE.

Tanker 10 is the gate guard at Missoula International Airport

P2V air tanker 10 gate guard missoula airport

While in Missoula this week I got a couple of photos of Tanker 10, the retired P2V that is now the “gate guard” at the airport.

When it was placed in that position in June of 2017, Kevin Condit, Neptune’s Marketing Manager said, “Neptune and the Missoula aviation community have a very long history, and with the Smokejumpers and the Forest Service in Missoula, they asked Neptune Aviation if Tanker 10 could be the gate guard.”

All of the P2V air tankers with their two 18-cylinder radial engines and two small jet engines are now retired, and most will find homes in museums.

P2V air tanker 10 gate guard missoula airport

Neptune plans retirement commemoration for P2V’s

Long Ridge fire

Above: A P2V air tanker drops retardant on the Red Canyon Fire 9 miles southwest of Pringle, July 9. Photo by Bill Gabbert.

(Originally published at 5:40 p.m. MDT July 27, 2017)

From Neptune Aviation Services:

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As many of you know, 2017 marks the final fire season for our beloved fleet of Neptune P2V airtankers. On Saturday, September 30 from 1:00-6:00 pm, Neptune Aviation will pay tribute to these historic aircraft at our Missoula campus and we would be honored if you would join us. We’ve planned an afternoon chock full of adventure, including flyovers, water drops, static displays, and more.

Beginning tomorrow [July 28], we will be posting our favorite P2V pics from over the years-photos YOU have graciously shared with us! And just for fun, any photo submissions between now and September 30 will automatically enter you in a drawing for a limited edition, custom P2V model. Send your pics to MEDIA@NEPTUNEAVIATION.COM and keep an eye on our FB page for more event details!

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Fly with a P2V air tanker in 4K

The YouTube account of Bob Webb has a high quality 4K video shot from the cockpits of P2V air tankers in 2016. I doubt if you’ll be able to appreciate the resolution on a mobile device, so check it out on a large monitor if possible. (When you click on the “gear” icon at bottom-right there are eight choices ranging from 144p to 2,160p. Go for the gusto, with 2,160!)

In spite of the wide angle lens on the camera at times you can see the lead plane out ahead, a little white dot, release smoke to mark the target. There is no view of the retardant being dropped, but a couple of times you can see the shadow of the drop.

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via @thesnowbirds

Helicopter mobilized from the showroom floor of convention

Columbia BV-107
File photo of a Columbia BV-107 at Custer, SD July 31, 2011. Photo by Bill Gabbert.
While some have said the National Interagency Fire Center responded slowly to the very busy wildfire activity that started March 6 in the central plains where about a million acres burned in a few days, eventually they did take action.

In an effort to mobilize a Type 1 helicopter they contacted Columbia Helicopters who had one on display at a helicopter convention.

 “This is the first time we have received a resource order for firefighting duty, while displaying our helicopter at a convention,” said Keith Saylor, Director, Commercial Operations, for the Portland, Oregon-based company.  Reached by phone at the Helicopter Association International (HAI) convention in Dallas, Saylor explained that transitioning the helicopter, from a static display to a mission-ready firefighting aircraft, involved removing the rotor blades, exiting the convention center, then reinstalling the rotor blades.  This was followed by a flight to a nearby airport for refueling and overnighting.  Called up on March 9, the helicopter was deployed the following day to Ardmore, Oklahoma, under an optional use clause of a US Forest Service (USFS) exclusive use contract.  The helicopter was dispatched with two pilots, five mechanics and ground support equipment drivers.

A former US Army-operated CH47D Chinook, the helicopter was modified by Columbia Helicopters with a 2,800 gallon capacity internal tank for water, jells, foam, or retardant dropping, and had been flown to the convention following firefighting duty on East Coast fires.

Also responding to the fires, Neptune Aviation Services dispatched three of its BAe-146 air tankers to multiple locations, according to Dan Snyder, Chief Operating Officer for the Missoula, Montana-headquartered company.  Three of the tankers were dispatched from Missoula between March 9 and 11, and flown to USFS tanker bases in Ardmore, Oklahoma, Abilene, Texas, and the Rocky Mountain Regional Airport, near Denver, Colorado.  A fourth BAe 146 tanker will continue to fly out of a base at Lake City, Florida, where it has been on duty since February 20.

On March 16 Neptune mobilized T-05, the first of their P2V piston engine tankers to start an assignment this year, which will probably be the model’s last season as the company completes their transition to the jet-powered BAe-146 airframe.