The programs that Wildfire Today told you about a year ago that train military veterans to become wildland firefighters appear to be increasing and are now grouped into a new organization called Veterans Fire Corps. Three programs — operating in California, Colorado, and Arizona — build upon the knowledge, leadership experience, and training that men and women who served in the armed forces already possess, retraining them and refocusing their mission to protect our public lands from the threat of wildfire.
It consists of a three tiered Firefighter Leadership Development Program, providing incrementally more challenging experiences for program participants. It helps veterans transition to civilian life by leveraging their leadership experience to meet pressing conservation needs on public lands while providing job training for future employment in the wildland firefighting field.
Here are some quotes about the program from people that have been involved with the Veterans Fire Corps:
Lew Sovocool, former VFC leader and supervisor:
The work is tough and dirty but is purpose-driven, which I believe is very attractive to veterans. There’s also the excitement and adrenaline rush that pushed us toward the military. There is a sense of national service which all of us are proud to be a part of.
There’s a sense of teamwork and camaraderie that exists in wildland firefighting that is very similar to that which we all experienced in the military.
Ross Schumaker, former VFC leader:
With the combination of all the classes, contacts, and me being a badass, I have landed a job on a fire engine for the upcoming season and plan on making wildland firefighting my career.
We OWE our veterans for their service to our country. The least we can do is to give them training so that they can compete for jobs.
- More information on programs in California, in partnership with the California Conservation Corps.
- More information on programs in Colorado and Arizona, in partnership with the Southwest Conservation Corps.
- More information on programs in Arizona and South Dakota, in partnership with the Student Conservation Association.
Thanks go out to Dick
My name is John McCormick and I am still in the United States Marine Corps with 3rd BTN 5th MAR. I served in Sagin Afghanistan and currently on the 15th MEU. My term ends in mid June and I want to become a wild land firefighter. My questions are does the GI bill help cover expenses and what certifications do I get after completion of this course? Also my biggest fear is not getting hired, I would also like to know if this program helps us find jobs after completion as well? I like to take the time to thank you for this program it gives young veterans like myself peace of mind and a good direction to head to and look forward to after our military service.
John, my name is Dave Stancil. I’ve been involved with the Veterans Fire Corps for about two years now running crews and being a part of the VFC. Along with this I am also an Army veteran (91W medic) and have seasons with the Forest Service in both NM and CO. We are always looking for quality candidates. This program does not utilize any of your GI bill. All training and experience is provided with a living stipend of roughly 325$ / week. Crews usually work a 10 on 4 off schedule for 3 months. If you get this please feel free to email me david.j.stancil at gmail dot com. We can exchange numbers and I can tell you more about the program and go from there.
It’s a shame that such a fantastic program gets some incredibly negative comments. Much appreciation for those in support. I am always able to field questions and explain our program in more detail.
Dave Stancil
Crew Lead
Veterans Fire Corps
FFT1
Hi John, I’ve been involved with VFC for roughly 2 years, 1 of those years as a crew lead. I’m also an Army vet (medic) and have seasons as a firefighter in both CO and NM. Feel free to email me and we can talk about our program. We are always looking for quality folks. david.j.stancil at gmail dot com.
http://mypubliclands.tumblr.com/ourbloggers/rtueller/veteranpartnership
Recent story on my crew up on the AZ strip to give another side to it.
Don,
Your story doesn’t match in any way what your supervisors, fellow firefighters, fire managers, and line officers are saying.
You already pleaded your case on another website with folks running away.
Probably something you should self evaluate and correct at a later time as conditions improve and stabilize? Telling “tall tales” w/o facts.. not very good at restoring/saving bridges in the fire service.
I wish you the best.
former_cnf-
you must be confused. This is the first time I have shared my opinion, or my story anywhere.
former_cnf,
and lastly, because this isn’t the forum for me to be arguing with a psychic… I got fired during my probationary period. I am not allowed to file a grievence, or an appeal. So if there is a bridge burning somewhere- go put it out.
Things that make u go hmmmmmm
Ipads and reading accusations, missing shift, etc coming from the protected class folks??
Their day will come, Don. I understand there are 2 sides of evey story. Good luck with everything, Don.
I personally was laid off for 2 yrs and found my way South. Wife in another state, commuting to see her. next door neighbor, former airline driver, in Agannystan flying missions.
Then to read your story about those “professional women” playing thie childish games. Maybe they need a dose of “Ghanny time or hard days work OUTSIDE of Fed employment….see how far they get with Ipads on some others jobs….Oh Wait…it is accepted nowadays….it’s the generation that “thinks” they can run fire programs, hose and pulaski in one hand and an Ipad in another thinking they are “multitasking!”
Good Luck with everything , Don. Time will be on your side!
Don
More confirmation of that stellar hiring system.
Here’s my take and I HAVE a Forestry DEGREE with a minor in FIRE and AVIATION MANAGEMENT…
I am elsewhere now in the EM world NOT lookin down at anyone in the forestry world but sure am reading about all these “experts” coming out of the colleges….I wouldn’t and didn’t say a whole lot until my 3rd year in fire and then I may have had a leg to stand on.
Coming out of college with that textbook education prepares you in NO WAY, NO HOW for a perm gig,
There IS the sorry truth. UNLESS you have time in a State, Fed or local or contract fire outfit as a temp…you are MINIMUMALLY (sp) for perm gig ..NOT just because you got a 3.0 to 4.0 and was a whiz on the “internets and IT stuff.”
The fire world is so dependent on technology now that most crews ( I hate to imagine) forgot what a true map and compass is or might even look like…say what????? That education you received as I did 17 yrs ago did not make you qual’d for perm gigs
If you are a college student with no desire to get dirty except for a “few summers” and because you can wear all that “kewl” nomex and think you are a hardened athelete after a few summers and then think that by getting a perm position without nary a forestry degree or IF you have never been on a planting crew, BD type crew, fire crew, aren’t ready to change oil, sharpen tools, text and burn all day on the internets, take crap, bitch about low pay and then tell us about unfair you all have it…….Please leave room for real practicioners who maybe able more than preach idealism and think they are out to save timber one log at a time. Because there are many logs out there, that many of my same age counterparts have left to die off due to insect and disease, fire, who thought they were doing the Nation a favor by saving timber from select or clearcut through “proper forest management.” IF proper forest managent came before all these social programs that the Agencies now preach, I venture to say we MIGHT in better shape then we are today.
Forestry school DID NOT teach me how to go out and convince the public about hazard mitigation, fire, emergency management, Firewise, how to talk with mayors, city and county officials, etc. Hard work and contacted people by phone and ACTUALLY getting one’s fanny Oscar Oscar Tango Oscar (Out of the office) and actually get out and shake hands….si I do not get the idea(s) of today’s college educated, where they get the idea, they are first in line for permanent gigs…ALOT of ASSUMPTIONS from today’s youth!!
The whole hiring system now is messed up that it will probably take ANOTHER computer system to straighten it out and then the whole HR system needs a revamp because there are plenty-o-HR types that spell Pulaski but NEVER much operated one
Look at the above post. Don I feel sorry for you and your 45 day tour…….what a joke…
Where did u wind up for all of to read….
LEO-
You made some good points. As for me- my job and housing were combined (guess my truck was too) because, when I was fired I was given an hour to check my gear in, and vacate the barracks (I moved 2000 miles for that job) at the station where I lived. I was caught totally by surprise- I hadn’t been written up for anything, never heard any complaints from my superiors, or my peers for that matter. Then first thing in the morning at the beginning of our 3 day weekend (everybodyelse had left town the night before as not to be asked to come in for coverage) I had to meet my supervisors boss at the station. I figured they just wanted someone around in case a fire busted. Nope…my supervisor (who literally missed half her shifts because of school) her supervisor, and his supervisor- (micro – manage – ment) pulled out a list of allegations against me- that were allegedly made by my coworkers who left the night before for the weekend. My supervisor (whom I caught playing with her I- PAD while talking to her girlfriend on her cell phone, when she was supposed to be our lookout) read the allegations like they were a matter of fact- I asked if they were joking- they said no, I said B.S.- then they gave me a copy of the papers, and asked for my badges and ID’s. To make matters worse- I bought a truck from a dealership near work that advertised “your job is your credit” (plus $1900 down)- 9 days before I got fired. I didn’t have a place to live after I got fired so I rented a motel room for the night. Woke up the next day to find my truck repossessed. They talked to my work- “no job, no credit”. My job, my home , my truck- all gone in a day. I made my way back to WA. where I am still looking for work. (staying on family’s couch, trying to keep up with bills on unemployment, feeding myself with foodstamps) beware- not all people in the fire service have honor, or a sense of duty. On 9/11/11 they couldn’t even make it to a remembrance ceremony while in Bastrop. I was pissed! On 9/11/01 I was fighting fire. My boss and the other folks she trained on her rig were still in junior high school. I’m rambling. Atleast veterans know about duty and honor, and looking out for one another.
I served before I got into fire. I didn’t use points to get my first seasonal fire job on a shot crew. I served during peace time and thought there were vets more deserving of that preference. The biggest problem plaguing the fire service in my opinion has to do with college kids getting permanent positions. Not all students in permanent positions are pursuing fire related degrees. In fact, most of them aren’t. Yet the agencies promote them into supervisory positions, and dump a bunch of money into training them, and then they graduate. Oops. I say good for the vets. I hope that now with so many returning home and looking for work, that we start doing the right thing and give those positions to people who have already proven their dedication and commitment to this country (and the rest of us). I started in fire in 96′. It was everything I was looking for, so I earned a vocational diploma and made ‘fire’ my profession. I worked all over the country as a seasonal until I had to go perm because of my age. I made it 45 days into my probationary period as a perm before I was fired because of one of those college kids. I earned my career position to have it taken away by a “tourist”. Hire Veterans. Get the half-time firefighters out of permanent positions and restore the camaraderie and honor that was the appeal for so many of us.
James, just one quick comment about how you can say fire is just a dangerous as combat? When you get blown up walking to chow from an incoming motar Then you too can have preference for a perm gig! Until then ill keep moving up the ladder cause I earned mine and no tree hugging whiney little hippie will ever take that away
Many good comments here. One I’d like to add. I’m not a veteran, but have many great friends who have fought for our Nation, and most of them love and value peace more than any of us who have stayed here – they know the price of that peace far more intimately than the rest of us. They are willing to pay the price to protect that peace, and make sacrifices far beyond what 99.9% of us firefighters ever make. They have paid that price to protect our many freedoms, including the freedom to despise them and their mission, but I would hope we would show them greater respect than to abuse that freedom so. They have earned our respect and gratitude, and if we can offer them a little assistance in getting a good job, it still falls far short of what they have done for us already.
James everyone’s comments so far have hit it right on the head, but I thought I would add one thing. Those brave men and women have fought and some have given their lives for us seasonal firefighters to go to work every fire season and go fight fire. I for one would gladly give my seasonal position to a veteran who has fought to protect my freedom. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
James,
Veteran’s are not guaranteed federal jobs. They get a 5 to 10 points added to their total score. In 31 years of federal service I have seen many passed over for jobs. No fault of their own. I worked with, supervised, hired and was supervised by Veterans and for the most part found them good people and leaders. Part of it was they shared a common bond of service and experience.
I would suggest you take Leo’s comments to heart. He knows the path well.
Carefully review your statements and perhaps talk to some young and old veterans. If you can’t take the time to look back and reflect on what you have said, possibly in haste and anger about vets and others perhaps it is time you seek other goals then fire.
Forty years ago in a small nasty war in a far-away land I learned that mutual respect is something we all need to value.
Well James……
I might be a chirper on this forum.
But I will say after 22 servicing the free worlds finest helicopters in the US Army Guard and seeing lots of my compadres take for foreign lands and some of my contractor buddies that got laid off in the civilian airline world to fly in the “Stans”…
I served in many seasonal positions 15 to 20 yrs ago in the natural resources world and FIRE also, drove 70 miles to one job one way each day for approx 2 yrs while still doing my time in the part time military.
I “gots” some advice for ya….there are plenty of you seasonals that think the same as you…..some how thinking that you are more educated the the troops…
That MIGHT be BUT..there are plenty of seasonals and permanent personnel in YOUR and my former field that would ‘bitch” if there ice cream was cold.
When you finally become a permanent..remember one thing…you are no better than the person next to you man, women, protected class, etc.
That is wrong with the natural resources world as well as any other employer, their ability to think they are hiring the best. Mind you, I have met plenty of natural resource “peace loving” folks who would never help the other guy out in order to get themselves a perm gig.
There ‘s a term for those folks. I will let you learn as you go along tryin to get your perm gig.
Another one for ya, James is the term, that you are you going to know in the future…
“Old age and treachery overcome youth and skill.”
You still got time to learn. Don’t make any more mistakes like this one. If you chirped about those other “protected classes” in the natural resources world like you did here about the troops the outcome may not so pretty.
I think you know what I am talkin about!!
What the hell does “PEACE” loving have to do with it.
And how do you know, James, what position these people may have had. Sounds like some whine boobies out there. Firefighter positions should be guaranteed to no one. Those that have served this country should though…have a leg up.
I dont see anything about this program guranteeing anyone a permanent Federal position. from what I can see it is a developmental program like the Great Northern crew in Missoula.
I dont know where these “peace loving people” are, but the Forest Service has been unable to staff 20% of their engines in California the past few seasons.
I have worked with the Environmental Studies program at MSU_Billings and other than the Native Americans and a one student with previous wildland experience there is ZERO interest in wildland fire as either a summer job or as a career. While I have not talked to the instructors in the fire science program at the MSU-Billings College of Technology, I am fairly confident that none of the students are interested ina wildland career.
I know two Smokejumpers who were in the Army Reserves and were called up to active duty. One served in Iraq and the other in Afganistan. I am pretty sure neither one had “Born To Kill” writen on the helmets.
So they are going to give special priveldges to some ex military person who sat in an air conditioned room or someone who worked in the kitched heating up precooked food over a seasonal firefighter with college that HAS BEEN working in dangerous and rough conditions for multiple years? Government at it’s best.
What a HORRIBLE idea! Most veterans are guaranteed a job in the federal government. This will make it EVEN harder (like it’s not hard enough) for hard working PEACE loving individuals to get a job in the federal fire program. Seasonal firefighters work just as hard or even harder than a lot of military people (depending on branch and job description) and are in more danger than some military people. They deserve the jobs even more than the ex military. Just because someone signed up to join the military should NOT give them special privledges. Why should someone that wanted to take up arms against countries that were of no threat to our freedoms or someone that joined just to get college paid for get special privledges? I know plenty of hard working non military seasonals with more quals than a lot of perms. These guys are busting their butts trying to get a perm but keep getting passed over to hire minorities and ex military. The leadership skills and qualities the federal fire programs have are better than what the military has. If ex military want the jobs then they should earn it like the rest of the seasonals did. Most ex military are not well educated (college). Look at the seasonal firefighters, ALOT are college kids. I’d rather have someone leading a crew or engine that had the skills and knowledge to get through college and earn a degree. Just another way the government is shooting itself in the foot. Retirement can’t come soon enough.
Maybe they signed up for the military to keep the fight over there so that there won’t be another attack that killed 2,977 innocent people. 343 out of that number were fire service personnel. Just like YOU. Show some respect and thank them that we get paid to hike around in the woods and put out burning trees instead of pulling pieces of humans out of rubble…again. I’d rather the leader of crew be someone with a sense of duty and honor than some idiot who twiddles his thumbs waiting for retirement. Just retire now before your attitude gets someone hurt on the fireline.
No – you are wrong. Vets are not just about guaranteed a federal job. Veteran’s unemployment is currently OVER 15%!! Which is even higher than the state with the highest unemployment of 11% which is California. MANY people exiting military have degrees or obtained degrees immediately following still go unemployed. So why not give a veteran who has served his/her country through deployments/endless work hours etc. to keep peace in the USA a little bump in the hiring process. Oh, and I’m speaking from experience. Me – disabled female vet, Bachelor’s in Business Management, nearly completed MBA, former officer STILL unemployed after TWO years! HOOAH1
Providing a program like this is a good step to helping veterans adjust to and get a structured program to fire positions. I’m glad to see such things in place.
Its a great idea. A Veteran already knows how to take orders, work in teams, they understand the chain of command. They are used to hard work and living under austere conditions. In California there has been a recruiting problem for sometime.
I don’t really understand why this program is necessary. In my experience veterans are virtually guaranteed a spot as a seasonal with the forest service if they apply and once hired are welcomed into the ranks. These entry level fed jobs provide better pay than the veterans fire corps and also give the veterans the time in grade necessary to move up the GS ladder into career positions. I’m totally in favor of bringing veterans into the fire service, but this program seems like a real waste. The money would be better spent helping veterans break into careers that don’t welcome them and/or don’t provide preference points.
Crispy: I asked someone who is very familiar with the program for their opinion on your comment. Here is how they replied: