Thursday afternoon President Biden announced that federal workers will need to be vaccinated for COVID or they will have to wear masks and be tested on a regular basis.
“Every federal government employee will be asked to attest to their vaccination status,” the President said in a live broadcast from the White House. “Anyone who does not attest or is not vaccinated will be required to mask no matter where they work, test one or two times a week to see if they’ve acquired COVID, socially distance, and generally will not be allowed to travel for work. Likewise, today, I’m directing my administration to take steps to apply similar standards to all federal [onsite] contractors. If you want to do business with the federal government, get your workers vaccinated.”
A fact sheet issued by the White House July 29, 2021 provided few more details:
Strengthening Safety Protocols for Federal Employees and Federal Contractors. Today, the President will announce that to help protect workers and their communities, every federal government employee and onsite contractor will be asked to attest to their vaccination status. Anyone who does not attest to being fully vaccinated will be required to wear a mask on the job no matter their geographic location, physically distance from all other employees and visitors, comply with a weekly or twice weekly screening testing requirement, and be subject to restrictions on official travel.
These rules should not only apply to federal workers and onsite contractors. President Biden is directing his team to take steps to apply similar standards to all federal contractors. The Administration will encourage employers across the private sector to follow this strong model.
We have asked the federal land management agencies how this requirement will be implemented among firefighters. When we hear back, we will update this article.
The pandemic is still occurring, but primarily among the unvaccinated. An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May showed that 98.9 percent of hospitalized COVID patients had not received the vaccine.
Already this year Oregonlive.com is reporting that nine people working on Oregon’s Bootleg Fire have tested positive. Since this type of data is very difficult to obtain, it is possible that nine people on one fire is just the tip of the iceberg. Today’s Situation Report shows 66 large un-contained fires staffed by 21,544 individuals.
In 2020 76 people assigned to Colorado’s Cameron Peak Fire tested positive for COVID. Two were hospitalized and 273 had to be quarantined while the fire was being suppressed.
U.S. Forest Service spokesperson Stanton Florea confirmed that 643 FS wildland fire personnel had tested positive for coronavirus as of January 19, 2021.
Of those, 569 had recovered at that time, Mr. Florea said, but 74 had not yet fully recovered or returned to work as of January 19. There have been no reported fatalities in the FS tied to coronavirus, he said.
NBC News reported August 29, 2020 that one BLM employee in Alaska died August 13 shortly after testing positive while on the job. Another was in critical condition at that time.
At least 222 Federal fire personnel had tested positive according to NBC:
- U.S. Forest Service: 122
- Bureau of Indian Affairs: 54
- Bureau of Land Management: 45
- Fish and Wildlife Service: 1
- National Park Service: (would not disclose the number to NBC News)
At the end of the 2020 fire season the Department of the Interior refused to disclose how many fire personnel in their four land management agencies tested positive.
Some people may think they are in good shape and probably won’t get COVID, and if they do it will not be severe. But that is a very selfish attitude. They could get it, be non-symptomatic and spread it to their significant other, spouse, children, grandparents, work group, or anyone else they come in contact with.
There is a lot we do not know about the disease, especially the long term effects being reported by “long-haulers” or “long COVID”. The CDC reports that “a recent study found that about 3 in 10 COVID-19 patients reported experiencing persistent symptoms for as long as 9 months after illness”.
A study in the UK found that people who had COVID performed worse on intelligence tests. From Psypost.org:
“For their study, [lead researcher Adam] Hampshire and his team analyzed data from 81,337 participants who completed the intelligence test between January and December 2020. Of the entire sample, 12,689 individuals reported that they had experienced COVID-19, with varying degrees of respiratory severity.
“After controlling for factors such as age, sex, handedness, first language, education level, and other variables, the researchers found that those who had contracted COVID-19 tended to underperform on the intelligence test compared to those who had not contracted the virus. The greatest deficits were observed on tasks requiring reasoning, planning and problem solving, which is in line “with reports of long-COVID, where ‘brain fog,’ trouble concentrating, and difficulty finding the correct words are common,” the researchers said.
“Previous research has also found that a large proportion of COVID-19 survivors are affected by neuropsychiatric and cognitive complications.
“ ‘We need to be careful as it looks like the virus could be affecting our cognition. We do not fully understand how, why, or for how long, but we urgently need to find out. In the meantime, don’t take unnecessary risks and do get vaccinated,’ Hampshire told PsyPost.”
For more information, read the Wildland Fire Lessons Learned Center’s article, “To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate — A Personal Decision on the Fireline — Are You Willing to Roll the Dice?” It was written by Dr. Jennifer Symonds, the Fire and Aviation Management Medical Officer for the U.S. Forest Service.
The bottom line is, if you are hesitant to get vaccinated, don’t get your scientific advice from Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, or a TV show trying to generate ratings. Check out the advice given by scientists.
I volunteered for the shots. But with the Delta variant and more variants comming, I say it is about flippin’ time to mandate the vaccine.
The Small Pox outbreak of 1901 was much smaller in raw numbers except it was deadlier, 17% died if infected; And, the Supreme Court upheld the mandate to vaccinate back then because of safety to the general public. The court held that individual liberty and injuries did NOT override the liberty and injuries that could be done to others.
Vaccines save lives. That’s why you don’t see small pox, polio, rabies and the carnage they inflict in people in the 21st Century. If animals have to get rabies vaccine, people can buck up and get the Covid vaccines too.
And exactly what does Herpes and your alleged cure have to do with COVID and firefighters on wildland fires in the 2021 fire season?
Looks like Bill musta made the 2 posts on Herpes “go away”? If so, thanks.
The software usually puts comments like that aside to be reviewed, but somehow those slipped through.
You can lead a mule to water, but you can’t make it drink.
“I wouldn’t put that vaccine in my body, nobody knows what it will do”
-puts in a horseshoe of Copenhagen and grabs a Monster out of the cooler.
LOL
I agree with you “the best data available.” I also would bet you agree that the best “sense making” of that data should also prevail. I think it is understandable, even reasonable, for people to turn to experts, as you do in this appeal to authority–and first responders do tend to take orders. In this you are right, most of the experts we are exposed to in the establishment agree that the vaccines are a reasonable response, if not a moral requirement. However, considering how many times this leadership establishment has contradicted and countermanded its own directives, (It’s just the flu, no need for masks, ok masks mandated, it lives on surfaces, it doesn’t live on surfaces, its carried in droplets, no its carried in aerosol, lab origin is pure nut conspiracy, ok maybe it was a lab leak…) I think people feeling suspect, and seeking other opinions is natural, and perhaps even wise. There is plenty of data now questioning the efficacy and safety profile of the vaccine. I would be happy to link them here, but I cannot in this messaging system.
With the evolution of COVID-19 there is an evolution of discovery. Concern for GOV saying, “Trust me. I’m here to help.” might be overblown. I prefer, “Trust me. I’m doing the best I can to help.” LR
This issue of vaccination is a construct of fact, fear, misinformation and disinformation. I liken it to a mobius strip from which there is no escape. LR
@another Bill. Thank you for your polite reply. People are welcome, in their personal lives, to draw their conclusions using any sources they wish. In the work place and especially emergency services work places, decision makers must be guided by the best data available. In this case the overwhelming majority of doctors and researchers around the globe agree that Covid is: 1) A danger – especially in co-living settings; 2) Safely managed by the several vaccines. Consequently, it is a mission critical for emergency services agencies to manage this risk by mandating vaccines. Individuals who defy these decisions due to their allegiance to the fringe data sources they enjoy in their personal lives must find work elsewhere.
We should start asking workers what there blood pressure is, BMI and cholesterol levels, diabetes type 1 or 2 before they show up to work once or twice a week, since last I checked heart disease is number one cause of death in the United States. How many Wildland firefighters die each year from heart attacks while taking the pack test? How many Wildland firefighters died in 2020 and present from COVID? Keep up the “Best Management Practices” for us all, but casting non-Vaxxers and bullying into submission is discrimination…
Any of those conditions contagious? No? Then mot relevant.
Nope. Not, relevant.
@ paskeezy3000 Firefighting requires communal living, shared risk, and physical fitness. Covid is a special danger in that environment . Your fellow citizens, by taking their small share of the vaccination risk, have proved the medicine safe. Your refusal to broadly consider all of the facts available, to challenge your own assumptions and to accept your share of the small risk probably makes you a poor fit for the job. If you and others choose to selfishly quit in the middle of the fire season some fires will grow even more destructive. Some lives may be lost. But this great nation will adapt. By next year we will have filled the gap you leave. Probably for the better of the fire service. Long live the United States if America.
It is astonishing to me that a profession that requires effective risk assessment and mitigation, that there are so many firefighters who fail that elementary task when it comes to the risks posed by COVID-19 and refuse vaccination. I don’t know why anyone should trust their judgment when it comes to keeping people safe.
Tom, no one has proved this vaccine to be safe. Short term side effects are reported by a relatively large number, compared to other vaccines, some of which are severe. As to long term effects, those that are likely to show up in time frames of years instead of months, we are clearly in the dark. This is why the FDA has denied approval. To add to that, highly credential scientist, such as Dr. Robert Malone–one of the co-creators of mRNA technology–have stated there have been some troubling ‘signals’ in the trial data that clearly demonstrate the need for long term studies–such as novel lipids showing up in unexpected places in animal trials. I find it unfortunate that people like you believe that young men and women who already risk life and limb for your safety, now must risk their health for a disease that has exceedingly small odds of effecting them directly, or otherwise be judged as ‘selfish’ and ‘unfit for work.’
I’m with you 100% (another) Bill. When doing their own research about me and the vaccines trying to stop me, people should only look to the incredibly small minority of doctors going against the “mainstream” doctors. People don’t need to hear what the other doctors who created mRNA vaccines have to say. Here are a few great doctors to consult for all your vaccine info; of course Dr. Robert Malone and former Doctor, Andrew Wakefield. The one they should really checkout for all their vaccine advice is the brilliant medical pioneer Stella Immanuel. She’ll tell you the same thing I will.
I’m not sure if the Plandemic lady is a doctor, but if she isn’t, she should be. What a sparkplug. I love what she has going on.
Remember, when it comes to being a physician, being widely criticized and discredited by your peers is a badge of honor.
If all else fails while researching me, just see what people on Facebook have to say. That’s how I learned about my survival rate.
Oh dude! not to get off topic, but I also saw a thing on Facebook about space lasers starting fires! You fire people should really look into that. It blew my mind.
Two words for all you non/anti/un-vaxers. INANITY & EGOISM! LR
Pot calling the kettle black, lol. Ride off into the sunset “Lone Ranger@ ?
Here goes your bobber. I did that long ago. Not sure if I’d trust you as my mount. Debate is an essence of non-combat. Bye. LR
Read the “mandate”. All it says is you must “attest” to your status. No proof is required and thanks to a strong union the USPS is already out of this malarkey. Also who is monitoring and checking in on weekly testing results? I’m pretty sure my doc isn’t releasing any info to anyone other than me. This whole thing is a fear tactic and has no teeth. Give it some time to be tore apart in the courts.
The three vaccines are indeed experimental. Simply do your research and you will see that this in an unequivocal truth, and in fact are not “approved” by the FDA. It seems unethical to twist people’s arm to take a treatment that doesn’t have the federal governments seal of approval. Fauci just admitted that viral loads in infected vaccinated people are just as high as they are in unvaccinated infected people. Meaning they spread it just as well. The chances of a middle age person dying of this disease are around 1 in 5000. Is it reason to be concerned, sure, but not what I would call ‘scary,’ and not mandating experimental treatments for.
And on another note–this is a forum for firefighters–a group of people that generally have a high regard for one another, and should. It’s also a group of people that are practiced at keeping calm in the face of potential threats and doing proper risk management. In the face of danger we keep cool and explain our position. We don’t freak out, and start name calling. Let’s keep it that way.
They aren’t approved by the FDA and they aren’t approved by me either. They don’t even faze me bro. I saw a Moderna walking down the street the other day and I was like, “Come at me bro.” And he was all like, “Nah, I’m good.”
Fast-tracking of vaccine development and approval rarely happens. In the case of COVID-19, a world pandemic putting an inordinate portion of the world’s population at great risk, fast-tracking was prudent in order to try to get ahead of the curve. FDA deals with major liability issues in vaccine approval but waiting too long for a COVID vaccine might leave us with too few lawyers to litigate your lawsuits. Ethics? Read “The Ethics of Vaccination”! For many of you the question of ethics flew out the door long ago! LR
Other Bill,
Sure…play with the #’s to massage yur point of view. 1 in 5000 chance of dying ?
We are over 600k dead in a population of 300 + million……Thats 1 in 500 chance of dying for the population as a whole by my calculations.
That also doesn’t include any of those who got ill and are struggling with covid aftermath.
Yeah, I know, you said middle aged….guess you don’t have any parents,grandparents,or other aged folks you give a hoot about. It’s all about you…when you get right down to it. Would you at least admit that ?
I agree. We are supposed to be professionals. The top of our line. To see us arguing over something so common as fire shelters, is not becoming of our profession. It is a safety issue that needs to be addressed.
I find these comments funny…In one article everyone’s upset because they were called “unskilled” and now, in this article people are upset, because they have to get the shot or be tested….weh, weh, weh…Where are the big strong firefighters that were in the last article? Are you telling me that you are scared of a little shot? Do your job. Get the shot. Think of it as part of your quals. You have to do it to keep your job. If you don’t than you get fired. Hey, I don’t like that the shot is tied to your income, but I don’t like being unemployed even more. I just think it is sad, that many of us lost our jobs, and y’all are complaining that you have to take a free shot that will save your life to keep your job. I like what some else said, if you don’t like it…leave, that way they will finally reinstate all the people who were wrongfully fire…How ironic…We followed the rules and were fired and many of you don’t want to follow the rules and you get to stay? Sounds like that’s a violation of policy…misconduct…or maybe y’all are just unskilled, poor performers. Whatever! Put yourself at risk, put the public at risk…yeah, that sounds like a great plan…I’ll remember this the next time I see a We Are The Forest Service commercial.
All of our comments bring into light how absolutely ridiculous things have become concerning Covid-19, if this freaking virus wasn’t so scary this blog would be hilarious….just one more thing for you conspiracy folks….the three approved vaccines are not experimental……are you kidding……this thing will continue to mutate until we reach heard immunity…..you speak of your rights…..OK…….Then do the right thing……your fellow countrymen are depending on you……
Class action law suits……come on…..that always the answer for some…..my rights have been stepped on……I am going to sue…..pure nonsense…….It’s a pandemic…….Peace out……
Peace out…
For crying out loud, just go get a shot. Nobody’s going to take your gun away.
I guess it’s not surprising that folks that are so scared of the world that they need to carry guns with them everywhere they go are also afraid of a vaccination. If only they could shoot covid…
I just want to express a big heartfelt thank you to the “I’m not getting that shot/do your own research/I know more than scientists” crowd for all your love and support. I couldn’t do it without you guys!
Total cases in America 36,000,000, total people in America 350,000,000, that’s 10% that have had covid with 612,000 “Covid deaths” ( note in 2017 -2019 there were an average of 39,000 flu deaths a year but in 2020-21 season there were only 649 deaths due to flu… interesting similar numbers on pneumonia etc.. https://hive.rochesterregional.org/2020/01/flu-season-2020)
So the chance of covid death is about 0.17 percent based on total population. While we have all been basically immune to the flu since covid… weird
This article states that the forest service has had 122 cases of covid yet has 30,000 employees that is a 0.4 percent chance with-in the organization that have had covid. while 10% is the national average. Weird. I wonder if numbers are being manipulated at the higher levels. Wake up sheeple
Your use of the term “sheeple” is so incredibly ironic.
I’d guess that seasonal flu and pneumonia are comorbidities contributing to COVID deaths. LR
there was less flu because of anti-covid precautions – such as washing hand. duh.
And the risk is to anti-vaxers … vaccinated people may have breakthough covid at very low rates, but it is less severe. However they can infect non-vaccinated people who have very severe covid.
So masks are not so much to protect oneself, as to protect others.
I suspect that the current generation who never had to live through spanish influenza (deaths in all people) , polio, diptheria, & whooping cough (deaths in children) … don’t really have a feeling for the consequences of a “me first” attitude.
unvaccinated for covid? Do not go to the hospital and waste doctors or nurses time. Do not put them in danger also. Just stay at home or in the hills and do your own doctoring. Some fire folks think they are smarter than scientist or medical professionals. Didn’t you know, federal employees are expendable. Leaders are always replaced again and again no matter how good you think you are.
firedog,
Whoa whoa, eeeeeeasy. Could you please pump the breaks with the aggressive anti-anti-vaxxer talk. You’re making it harder for me to do my thing. Remember, it’s their body their choice.
COVID 19 will not win eventually. Many more unvaccinated folks will die and parts of their families will die. No Joke. You can’t run away from this one. Its here, it is now. For you unvaccinated people, go ahead and visit and see your family. Its only a matter of time when you will all be sick. Maybe some of you will die, maybe some of you will make a mutation of the virus that is worse than the delta. Don’t you know what a virus is, it can mutate, like the flu virus. OK COVID 19 my last comment for this, you will win and take many lives of people. I hope you are happy with the long list of unbelievers that are on your doorstep.
True.
I consider the whole thing to be a Zombie Apocalypse. And the biggest restriction of our First Amendment right of free association in my lifetime.
One of the “three big lies” is Trust me. I work for the Government and I’m here to help you.”
Here’s an article advising of the legal and Constitutional aspects. Possibilities of a bunch of lawsuits and class action lawsuits coming nationwide? Only time will tell …
( https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/ )
Here’s another “article” advising that you get vaccinated.
https://www.statenews.com/2021/08/03/common-law-says-respect-others-and quit-being-such-dicks
I’m guessing that your line is, “I’m from the government, and I’m not here to help you”
As everyone is into ‘ Science’ I will mention a most recent study of an outbreak of Delta in New England. 74 percent of those infected were fully vaccinated. This is consistence with other studies on Delta and its response to vaccination- though the most extreme. While it is likely that the vaccination lessons severity for individuals, it still clearly allows for spread. Unvaccinated will likely suffer more – but neither choice is really ‘stopping’ the spread. In fact, vaccination is analogous to unanchored fire line. Sure it might slow the head of the fire for a time- but that fire will eventually find the holes in your line and keep moving.
Yes it will.
As everyone is into ‘ Science’ I submit this recent study. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21030483-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-massachusetts-july-30-2021
Wow, didn’t realize there were so many conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxer’s in the fire community. That doesn’t bode well.
No, it does not bode well but really, MariahFire, what percentage of WFT readers ever contribute a comment? What percentage of the “wildland community” even read it. I’ve followed WFT for years. [I’ve followed Bill into fires with El Cariso] It seems things have gotten more contentious over the last few years. I see a correlation with the rise of potus 45 (not worthy of capitalization) and so much contention. But, yes, I too have a concern over the apparent leanings of many contributors as perhaps they have of mine. Enjoy! LR
Really?
You should have figured this out when some of rookies get tasked to read aloud weather report of situation report in the morning and struggle mightily.
Or maybe when a seasonal with college degree ends up on a R5 crew and they end up getting mocked and ridiculed mercilessly.
Or perhaps when you get the blank looks when you try to explain how to read a map or use a compass.
Or you have remote fire outstations where the parking lot is stacked with trucks that get 14 mpg and the only guy on the crew with a car that gets over 25 mpg gets (not jokingly) insulted for trying not to spend his off-season paycheck on gas.
I’ve seen all of these.
No it doesn’t.
Hey best case scenario is all you anti-vaxxers and conspiracies theorists make the “choice” to leave the agency. Clearly contributing to public and firefighter safety fails to take precedence over your own ill founded beliefs. Go on, git…
Here is the stark reality, you are selfish. You do not want to take an incredibly small risk involved in getting a vaccine at the consequence of allowing a virus that has sickened millions and killed hundreds of thousands of our citizens to persist. People will continue getting infected, getting sick, and dying. Firefighters will keep ending up in quarantine or out of commission for the season.
If you were amongst my employees I’d happily show you the door. Don’t let it hit you. If you were in a leadership role, these types of uninformed opinions would cause me to seriously question your judgement or whether or not you had the mental fitness to lead fire fighters in life or death situations. And have no doubt, you may have them scared, but this is how many of your employees view you and others like you on a daily basis. I’m done being nice about this, covid sucks! It has killed family members and colleagues! Get over yourself. Government intervention is necessary when the people fail to care for each other.
Honestly everyone! In a nutshell, don’t you get it? Humanity is doomed. Collectively we are morons and idiots. Anti-vaxers/non-vaxers included. Fear of government. Fear without it. Fear of science. Somebody is always out there to get me. What in the world makes me so important that somebody out there wants to get me? I have a choice phrase for humanity that I can’t type here. We are all risk-takers, typically risk(s) of our choosing. Oh that’s right, being told I need to get vaccinated takes away my freedom of choice, my freedom to determine/choose risk (wildland firefighting for instance), potentially forcing many more than one (you) into your Covid risk of choice. Since, individually, we can never get it together for the good of humanity, humanity will ultimately fail. One way or the other though you can stand tall as a proud individual! LR
Not that I necessarily disagree, but I came here to spectate insane comments, and this just sort of brought me down.
Would you jump out of a plane without a parachute? Because, it’s your right.
TV,
More like, would you jump out of an airplane without a parachute and grab 5 people on the way out. When does it become a “cult” suicide pact?
Yeah, no kidding.
https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/epa-researchers-test-effectiveness-face-masks-disinfection-methods-against-covid-19
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/is-the-covid19-vaccine-safe
Sometimes we need to do what’s best for our country, it matters not, Donkey or Elephant, we are blessed to live in a country with the vast resources that we have, other countries are struggling to aid their citizens.
If nothing else do your homework, if you decide against the vaccine them maybe you should stay home….
I believe in our liberties, I surely do…..do the right thing…….
Amen to that.
This is discrimination based on medical info. Does the GOV segregate workers that have diseases like HIV/AIDS, Hep A, B and C, gonorrhea, herpes and make them wear a marker that signifies they are contagious? The GOV just going to ignore the rules involving HIPAA?
Also the Nuremberg Code (1948) that was used to prosecute War Crimes applies to this medical experiment. They are stomping on Freedom of Choice and Free Will. Violates the 8th Amendment by requiring painful swabs that dig into nose membranes, I call that cruel and unusual. Violates the 9th Amendment; the right to travel, the right to keep personal matters private and to make important decisions about personal matters.
Too much money and control to keep it honest. Forbes just did a story about 40+ new Billionaires involved with Covid. https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/04/06/meet-the-40-new-billionaires-who-got-rich-fighting-covid-19/?sh=3320b28017e5
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-06/when-lifesaving-vaccines-become-profit-machines-for-drugmakers
Then just exactly one comment later another fallacy bingo point is earned. Deferment. The Government does have the supreme court backing on exceeding its authority when it comes to public safety. Goes all the way back to good old Abe’s days.
We should play argument fallacy bingo in this thread. Tally up all the common argument fallacies from the comments. Whichever side of the argument has the most fallacies wins. Or if you don’t want to tally the score I’ll just tell you, the “vaccine hesitant” team is dominating. Hasty generalization and false dichotomy seem to be a common play call.
Hey? The fear, egoism and absurd logic buried in many of these comments is frustratingly frightening and infuriating. Thank goodness folk like them will hold the ground, never becoming “Commies”. LR
There are many reasons why 50% of the eligible people in this country have still not chosen to take an experimental vaccine that has been so highly pushed in every setting of our lives.
All of us have to do our own risk benefit analysis in every situation in life. The most important key has been and always will be personal freedom and choice.
For those that have not been following the data posted on CDC and VAERS along with Johns Hopkins and others – please start doing so. Starting in May 2020, it was shown that COVID-19 has a death rate of less than 1%, even in the most vulnerable populations. All medical interventions pose a risk, and this “vaccine” has the highest death rate of any vaccine ever produced.
For those that feel better taking it, that is your right, but for those of us who do not wish to, bullying, coercion and segregation in the name of safety is just disgusting.
Viruses mutate, essentially benefiting themselves. Kind of like what many human beings do. So what comes first, an ultra-virulent Covid mutation or world herd immunity? Wisdom suggests erring on the side of vaccines now to slow Covid’s ever evolving power. LR
Case fatality rate (CFR) varies from country to country. CFR varies over time as well. CFR for COVID-19 varies from @ .1% to 10%+ depending on location and the length of time over which deaths are counted. In the U.S. it is comparable to seasonal flu CFR. It isn’t that it is so deadly but rather, COVID-19 is extremely transmissible with potential long-term morbidity rendering it much worse than a seasonal flu.
As for the vaccines and our collective responsibility here is an on-line publication all of you should read, THE ETHICS OF VACCINATION (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538383/). Regarding the vaccines’ mortality rate, this “vaccine” DOES NOT HAVE “the highest death rate of any vaccine ever produced”!! The mortality rate in our general population is @ .00082%. In long-term care facilities it is much higher, @ .0053%, likely due to comorbidities.
I hope you are not fearmongering. LR
I have an idea…fire the people who don’t get vaccinated and reinstate the one who do. Just a thought!
I see a bunch of lawsuits and class action lawsuits coming nationwide. ???
https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/
Maybe we can all agree that the management of Covid-19 in our country has been a complete disaster, it will be interesting to see what history will say, it seams like every day the CDC changes guidance, wear mask, don’t wear mask and on and on.
As for the vaccine, millions of people have received the vaccine and near as I can tell folks are not dropping dead, yes there have been side effects to be sure, however at a very very low rate.
If taking the vaccine allows for our country to get back to normal then just do it, I am nearly 60 and I have been vaccinated, no issues, my mother is 80, no issues. I get that you younger folk can withstand a bout of covid just fine, however if getting vaccinated will slow the spread then maybe it’s the thing to do, the greater good.
I get that some of us at times do not like to be told what to do, myself included, no more lock downs, kids need to be in school, our society needs to be open, we have had enough ridiculous nonsense, we have all had vaccines a great many of them and they work, they save countless lives…..do the right thing and just suck it up……
Really, threaten to shut down a crew, are you serious…….I know ” Don’t Tread On Me” Aughhhhhhh!
There is no Govt conspiracy at play here…….I am sure the FDA will approve soon……That’s what it will take for more to get vaccinated.
What safety precautions and requirements in training and then line work are required to perform ones job? You do them without question to save yourself and your crews. Worried about a vaccine (the Pfizer vaccine we had are up to 95% effective against reinfection), but not the arsenic and other chemicals you breath daily when you sleep, eat and work in the black?
Yep.
The vaccine is good enough for President Trump and his family; why are so many still afraid of it?
Vaccine is good enough for President Trump and his family – why are so many people calling it “trash”?
Oh my people, just move on from the political stuff and that “it has only been around for a short time.” Would your grandparents and great grand parents act in the same childish way that you are with the measles and influenza! No is the answer, same thing just different times. You care about people enough to put yourself in danger on the front lines and breath in all these carcinogens and PM particles (oh and drink this mystery drink from MTDC to evaluate smoke and our airways), but you don’t care enough for yourself and immediate family to go get a vaccine. Grow up! Start reading the facts, people that have had COVID and people who haven’t but who have gotten the vaccine, who has more side affects?
For me it has nothing to do with politics. And as for my Grandparents and Great Grandparents, they trusted that smoking cigarettes and living in a house filled with lead paint and asbestos was perfectly safe. Too bad they didn’t learn the truth until 30-40 years later. My body, my choice.
And if everybody on a shot crew made that choice, “my body, my choice”, just imagine what that would do do crew cohesion. We have been trained to look at what is the safest option for everyone involved in our crews operations. If we decide to just let everyone make their own decisions in emergency management, we might as well just leave it up to the citizens on the ground to make our choices. Citizen A might make a decision to initiate a backfire, who are we to say that is not their right? Citizen B might make a choice to light a counter backfire, who are we to say they can’t do that?
Let’s just get out of fire protection all together, and just let the citizens run it how they please.
It has become obvious that they don’t need us to make those decisions on the ground that might impact their lives. They know best. Sorry I wasted my time trying to make your problems better.
Thank you.
Relax. This directive is NOT that you have to take the vaccine. If you do not, you get free weekly tests that will help protect your family and coworkers. Who would be against that? And you have to wear a mask if you do not want to take the vaccine. So you can proudly wear your mask so everyone can know you are not vaccinated, right? I doubt that the unvaccinated will be the only ones wearing a mask.
It gets a little muddy when you consider that on any given fire, there is a mix of state employees, and other cooperators, (county, NGO’s such as Nature Conservancy, National Guard, etc) that are exempt from this particular federal directive. Standing next to you at briefings, in the chow line, at supply, in dispatch, in a box trailer, yurt or wall tent, or in the bus or helicopter en route to a line assignment. And they may not be wearing a mask, giving you the false impression that all is as safe as it can be…
And I can almost hear federal Contracting Officers cringe…because…”hey, that was not in the contract”.
Again, you do NOT have to get the vaccine to keep working on fires if you are a federal employee or contractor.
Have fun weekly testing all the people who won’t get that trash (me included), while the west burns ??
Yeah, don’t get that trash…
Sounds like a threat to me! Letting the West burn won’t be on your conscience, hero. LR
It’s on all of our consciences.
If you’re reading this and aren’t comfortable being forced to inject an experimental cocktail, that isn’t FDA approved and hasn’t been around long enough for us to know what it actually does to the human body, you are not alone. Half my R5 Hotshot crew isn’t going going to be bullied, intimidated or scared into taking it. I serve in an overhead position and will not be taking it. They’re going to have to shut the crew down I guess. Im not badmouthing anyone who CHOOSES to get the injection but I will not be forced to. It’s going to be a tough August for suppressing fire if you push us into a corner because I’m not the only one.
Cheers to you sir. Whoever wrote this article doesn’t seem to appreciate how many times our federal leadership has screwed this thing up. Nor do they appreciate that firefighters specialize in risk management. Here are factors to consider: Both the effectiveness and the safety of the vaccine seem in question. News out of Israel is showing the jab to have only 40 percent effectiveness against delta. No long term studies on safety- and the pharmaceuticals have been given indemnity to liability. ( why if it’s so safe?!). In other words- it’s 4 o’clock, RH is under 10 percent, in manzanita with a cold front coming in with no air support—and you are being ordered to dig line downhill, and on top of that, it’s ‘selfish’ if you turn it down.
paskeezy3000, Thanks for the help! Keep spreading the word!
It’s a individual decision and if it is required employees may be unemployed out of their own choice. I saw employees fired for refusing to wear a seat belt. They are required.
And not wearing a seat belt won’t even kill other people!
Sounds like if you’re not willing to get weekly testing, you may looking for another job, since you aren’t willing to get vaccinated. I’m hoping my husband doesn’t work near your crew this summer. We believe in the science and got vaccinated, after getting Covid last December. It’s no picnic, and this variant sounds like another whole ballgame.
Maybe you shouldn’t be in a leadership position. Leadership requires critical thinking, quick analysis, and perhaps most importantly- reading comprehension.
Maybe you should re-read the directive while you are sitting for your weekly test. While you are getting tested, the people who are vaccinated will actually be contributing to putting the fire out.
What a waste. I hope they fire you.
This is the way. I chose to get the vaccine but I’ll always support the right for people to choose not to get it. We as individuals don’t owe the public a dang thing, least of all our services as firefighters.
The covid vaccine has been FDA authorized for emergency use. Full approval takes about 6 months although the FDA is attempting to expedite it. Pfizer applied for full approval May 7th, about 3 months ago; Moderna, on June 1st, about 2 months ago. The regulatory deadline is January, but FDA says, “Although an authorization is not an FDA approval, the FDA conducted a thorough scientific evaluation of each of the authorized vaccines …” Of course there has been a push to get them approved faster, but they stick to the science.
And I’m going to wear sandals and cutoffs to the fire line. Because you can’t make me do what seems to be common sense. Or what might be thing best thing for the humans on my crew. Or my friends and family. 3rd degree burns are just a hoax. This is not what right looks like.
Everyone under 30 should read this NY times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/health/covid-young-adults-sicker.html
It points out that “Physicians working in Covid hot spots across the nation say that the patients in their hospitals are not like the patients they saw last year. Almost always unvaccinated, the new arrivals tend to be younger, many in their 20s or 30s. And they seem sicker than younger patients were last year, deteriorating more rapidly.” – they are arriving in E.R. desperately ill.
Paskeezy,
The root of Covid 19 vaccines research, mRNA, started 30 years ago during the AIDS outbreak. Thankfully, Coronaviruses do not mutate as fast as AIDS does.
More recently, very similar vaccines were developed and used in the MERS outbreak of 2012 and the SARS outbreak in 2003; seventeen (17) years ago.
The Polio vaccine was initially developed by isolating the virus in human tissues in 1948. By 1953, Jonas Salk, successfully tested the Polio vaccine on a small test group and by 1954 1.8 million Children had been vaccinated thanks to mass production developed in Canada. The Polio vaccine was developed in a six (6) year span and was hailed as “Miracle” at the time.
In February of 1777, General Washington ordered all troops coming through Philadelphia that had NOT had Smallpox to be vaccinated for Smallpox. This was the first mass State funded immunization in our history.
Finally. You can “CHOOSE” to drink and get drunk at a bar. However, cannot “CHOOSE” to then drive while intoxicated and put everyone on the roads in danger.