Tag: 12 questions

12 Questions for Richard McCrea

At the Fuels and Fire Behavior conference in Albuquerque, New Mexico last month I ran into Richard McCrea and asked him to contribute to our 12 Questions series in which we ask seasoned wildland firefighters about their careers.

Mr. McCrea is a former Helena Hotshot and was Fire Management Officer at three Bureau of Indian Affairs agencies: Rocky Boys Agency in Montana, Olympic Peninsula Agency in Washington, and Northern Pueblos Agency in New Mexico. His fire qualifications included Division Supervisor, Fire Behavior Analyst, Burn Boss Type 2, and Incident Commander Type 3. When he retired he was the National Fire Planner at NIFC with the BIA. Now he is a consultant with Wildland Fire Associates.

When you think of an excellent leader in the fire service, who comes to mind first? Why?

The person that comes to mind is Homer Courville, from Pablo, Montana. Homer was a smokejumper out of the Forest Service’s Northern Region, Region 1. Homer’s family lived a few blocks from away from our house. All the neighborhood kids knew Homer was a smokejumper, jumped out of Ford Trimotors, looked as strong as a bull moose, and he was much admired.

What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?

Take good care of the folks that work for you. Everyone goes home. The trees will grow back.

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?

Pay attention to the weather forecast, in detail. Track the fire danger indices. If your baseball cap blows off, when you get out of the pickup, it’s probably too windy to burn.

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?

Not having a good anchor for the fire line and not mopping up and patrolling to secure the scene.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?

Keep a journal every day.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?

I was witness to a burnout in grassy fuels, on a steep mountain slope, which was ignited starting at the bottom of the canyon. Needless to say the fire quickly ran up to the top of the ridge and jumped the fire line. The ignition crew knew it was wrong but were ordered by overhead to “do it anyway”. We all stood in the black and watched the blaze roar over the mountain.

Your most memorable fire?

The Yellowstone Fires of 1988. I was on the Huck Fire, as a Division Supervisor, in a spike camp on Pilgrim Creek, several miles from the nearest road. I had one or two crews assigned to me to hold miles and miles of fire line, and no air support. Every several days we would get a wind event, and much of our fire line was breached. It was like 1910 all over again and you had to keep your wits and be a good woodsman. Every afternoon there were huge smoke columns that erupted to the north. One memorable day I hiked alone, back over a high ridge to contact the next division, only to find out that division was abandoned. On that same hike I stopped to adjust my pack and heard something behind me and turned around to see a cow moose and her calf, a scant 100 feet way, but they didn’t bother me, and I retreated.

The funniest thing you have seen on a fire?

I woke up one morning in camp and there was a large shovel box on the ground about 50 feet away. A head suddenly popped up out of the box; a fire fighter had slept in that cardboard hooch to stay warm.

The first very large fire you were on?

Marble Cone Fire, 1977, Ventana Wilderness, California, with the Helena Hotshots for 30 days.

Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?

Young Men and Fire by Norman MacLean.

The first job you had within the fire service?

Forestry Technician, GS-4, Timber Crew, on the Clearwater National Forest at Pierce, Idaho.

What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?

My North Face sleeping bag rated to 10 below zero.

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12 questions

12 Questions for Dave Nelson

Today we have the 13th article of our series in which we ask current and retired leaders in the wildland fire service to answer 12 questions.

We appreciate everyone who is cooperating with this project. Some of their responses may add to the knowledge base of our new firefighters coming up through the ranks. If you would like to nominate someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page; and their contact information would be appreciated.

Below we hear from Dave Nelson. When he retired from the U.S. Forest Service Mr. Nelson was the Forest Fire Management Officer for the Tahoe National Forest in California. He was an Area Commander, and also served as a Type 1 Incident Commander on an Incident Management Team from 1975 through 1983.

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When you think of an excellent leader in the fire service, who comes to mind first?
I have had the privilege to work with many, but Doug Leisz and Lynn Biddison stand out. Why? Doug was the Line Boss on the Volcano Fire in 1961 (one of my first major fires as a sector boss with 100 farm workers and Lynn was the Fire Boss on the Wellman Fire in 1966 when I led a smoke jumper crew on the first jump on a Southern California fire. Doug was a well respected leader throughout the USFS and wildland fire management and was the primary supporter and mover on the “Safety First” effort in the PSW Region. Lynn was a well respected leader in wildland fire management throughout the USFS and particularly in the SW and PSW Regions. Both gentlemen continue to be active leaders in national fire management.

What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?
Delegate authority to your primary staff and hold them accountable – and pay attention to the details – especially the basics.

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?
Obviously it is important to establish good parameters and conform to them, but most of our prescribed fires do not escape during ignition. Most escape after the primary burning phase has ended. Advice – pay attention to the weather and get out there before the wind starts blowing.

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?
Pounding a rolling fire with aerial retardant drops.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Really – I wish “I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then” – that we would ignore the basics like fighting fire at night, going direct, hanging in tight to the fire edge.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?
Keeping ground forces in camp due to light rain, but continuing to drop water and retardant from helicopters plus what I said earlier about using aerial retardant on a fast, moving fire – especially one advancing uphill.

Your most memorable fire?
Lots, but probably the Marblecone (1977) on the Los Padres National Forest and the Panorama (1980) on the San Bernardino National Forest as a Fire Boss and IC, but also the Bear Fire (1970) on my district (Big Bear) also on the San Bernardino while the district ranger.

The first very large fire you were on?
Alaska, 1956

—Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?
Burning an Empire

—The first job you had within the fire service?
Fire Control Aide for the BLM in Alaska

—What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?
I prefer to have my laptop and cell phone, but I think I could live without them.

12 questions area command

12 Questions for Wally Griffin

This is the eighth in a series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Wally Griffin, who has served as an air tanker pilot, lead plane pilot, and a Chief Pilot in Alaska.

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Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
Don Ornbaum…..he taught me to fly the DC-7 in the fire environment…..a VERY interesting experience.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Pay attention to the objectives of the Team and IC.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Resource value and social impact of the fire.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Use aircraft for those aspects of suppression that you cannot see or anticipate.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Our best efforts are not always enough to achieve the goals we intended.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
Without further information I cannot with any degree of accuracy name aircraft that I have not flown…..sorry.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
C-123, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, OV-10, Commander, Aero Commander.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
While flying with Don Ornbaum (his flight), the Lead asked us to tag onto a MAFFS drop…….Don climbed to about 4,000 ft where the MAFFS drop was hanging and dropped 3,000 gallons and then asked lead how the drop looked……it might have hit the ground in a week.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Maybe 2,000.

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
The Bible.

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Co-pilot on an Airtanker.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
9MM.

12 questions

12 Questions for Tom Harbour

Today we have the 12th article of our series in which we ask current and retired leaders in the wildland fire service to answer 12 questions.

We appreciate everyone who is cooperating with this project. Some of their responses may add to the knowledge base of our new firefighters coming up through the ranks. If you would like to nominate someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Below we hear from Tom Harbour, the U.S. Forest Service National Director of Fire and Aviation Management. After beginning as as GS-2 firefighter, Mr. Harbour worked his way up to District Ranger, Forest Fire Management Officer on the Angeles National Forest, Deputy Regional Fire Director in the Northern Rockies, Regional Fire Director in the Intermountain Region, and National Fire and Aviation Management Deputy Director before assuming his current position. He has been qualified as a Type 1 Prescribed Fire Burn Boss, Type 1 Incident Commander, and Area Commander.

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What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?
You are a leader and a servant. You are accountable and responsible. Remember what you have been taught and learned. Think, and by the way, don’t expect to get much rest.

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?
People – the folks executing the fire and the folks who live near the fire.

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?
Not engaging the brain prior to action.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Some of the folks higher in the food chain were actually concerned for me.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?
Igniting a prescribed fire when the test fire results indicated we were going to have trouble.

Your most memorable fire?
Mortar Creek (1979, Challis National Forest in Idaho), because I got over the fire when it had just escaped the campfire ring. In 1979, Mortar Creek was a giant we hadn’t seen in the area for decades. The Ship Island Fire happened that same day, I was working the Mortar Creek fire when I heard the radio traffic. I then spent most of the rest of the summer on the Mortar Creek fire.

The funniest thing you have seen on a fire?
A group of folks gathered around Bill Paddock listening to him tell stories about his earlier time in the USFS.

The first very large fire you were on?
A couple of days after I was hired in 1970, I headed with a hand crew to a fire in the Toulumne River Canyon. I cannot remember the name of the fire, but I remember the experience — I was hooked on a career.

Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?
Blink by Malcom Gladwell helps us understand about how we think under pressure.

The first job you had within the fire service?
GS-2 “shovel operator”

What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?
Hate to say it, but the constant buzz on my belt is an indication the Blackberry is seeking attention.

12 questions area command Tom Harbour

12 Questions for Dave Kohut

Today we have the 11th article of our series in which we ask current and retired leaders in the wildland fire service to answer 12 questions.

We appreciate everyone who is cooperating with this project. Some of their responses may add to the knowledge base of our new firefighters coming up through the ranks. If you would like to nominate someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Below we hear from Dave Kohut. Before he retired as the Fire Chief (Forest Fire Management Officer) on the Sierra National Forest in California he was the District Ranger on the Saugus Ranger District on the Angeles National Forest. From 1994 to 1998 he was the Type 1 Incident Commander on California Interagency Incident Management Team 2.

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When you think of an excellent leader in the fire service, who comes to mind first? Why?
This is a tough one! Had a few district rangers (Bill Murphy, Art Carroll and Fred Alberico) I worked for that set up good training plans for me and strongly encouraged to be active in “Fire Control”. The first “fire boss” that comes to mind is Lynn Biddison. He was fire boss on the Sundance Fire in 1967 and I was a Cat Boss. He took an interest in my assignment and personally assisted me in assuring the local forest folks that “2 Californians with 5 dozers were not going to bull-doze the mountains down”. Lynn continued this personal interest throughout his career.

What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?
“Remember, your ears and eyes don’t work well if your mouth is always moving”

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?
Base all the actions on current and expected fire behavior (which is, Know Your Weather, current and predicted!)

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?
Forgetting the basic fundamentals of fire and then making the situation too complicated sometimes with a demand for too much analysis and information.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
How rewarding working in fire and emergency management can be and the thousands of friends I have from that career.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?
A night shift where one crew was cutting line down a ridge and another crew cutting up the ridge from the bottom planning on meeting. However, they were on different ridges!

Your most memorable fire?
I think I learned and had memories from every fire I was on. Some were awesome such as Black Monday in Yellowstone; some were inspiring such as a quiet smoky spectacular mountain top sunrise on the Hog Fire on the Klamath; and some were heart-wrenching tragedy such as the Elizabeth Fire on the Angeles.

The funniest thing you have seen on a fire?
On a fire on the Tahoe N. F., we had Secretary of Interior Bruce Babbitt spend two days with the Tahoe Hotshots. The crew sleeping area was on the football field of the local high school. Logistics forgot to get the school to shut off the sprinklers. So about 0200, the crew and the Sec’t were seen running in their skivvies from the “man-made” rainstorm.

The first very large fire you were on?
Fire on the Angeles N.F. in 1962

Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?
The old Fireman’s Guide.

The first job you had within the fire service?
Crewman on “Tanker 22” Mammoth Lakes, Inyo N.F.

What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?
Hell, I failed “smart phone”. Still trying to master the TI-59 and the Planning Wheel!

12 questions California

12 Questions for Tom Nichols

Today we have the 10th article of our series in which we ask current and retired leaders in the wildland fire service to answer 12 questions.

We appreciate everyone who is cooperating with this project. Some of their responses may add to the knowledge base of our new firefighters coming up through the ranks. If you would like to nominate someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Below we hear from Tom Nichols, currently the Chief of Fire and Aviation Management for the National Park Service. Some other positions Mr. Nichols has held previously were Fire Management Officer at Yosemite National Park, Fire Management Officer for the NPS’ Pacific West Region, and Deputy Chief of Fire and Aviation Management for the NPS.

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When you think of an excellent leader in the fire service, who comes to mind first? Why?
Sue Husari and Tom Zimmerman are both great leaders with strong operational skills and a deep understanding of the relationship between resource management objectives and fire management practices.

What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?
If on assignment outside their unit, get information from the local staff on their fire weather patterns, fire behavior, resource advisor expertise, and stakeholder concerns. And whether in the home unit or not, how are you really going to evacuate someone with a serious injury?

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?
Smoke, and public tolerance for the duration of smoke.

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?
Suppression actions, especially backfires, causing way more damage to natural resources than the wildfire is doing.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
How unique the culture was in Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP in its support of prescribed fire and long duration natural fires in wilderness. I really enjoyed my time there.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?
Not enough drip torches, so the crews sloshing drip torch mix straight out of the jerry can and lighting it.

Your most memorable fire?
1985 Broken Arrow prescribed fire in Sequoia NP. Big controversy about charring on sequoia bark, got the program shut down for a year while a national review was done by an independent panel.

The funniest thing you have seen on a fire?
Firefighters standing on other crewmembers’ shoulders trying to get at a hotspot up inside a sequoia. Looked like the Flying Zambini brothers were in town.

The first very large fire you were on?
The 10,000 Ferguson fire, 1977 in Kings Canyon NP. Got a tool, a radio, a case of C rations, no S130/S190 training, got put on a Hughes 500 and off we went on day four of my career.

Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?
Three come to mind: Fire in America; Burning Questions; Blazing Heritage.

The first job you had within the fire service?
Seasonal fire effects monitor.

What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?
Well, the light bulb is sure handy for reading into the evening.

12 questions

12 Questions for Bill Waldman

This is the seventh in a series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Bill Waldman who retired as a P-3 air tanker pilot.

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Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
In 4 decades, there were many people that I worked with. I can’t list them all, might forget somebody. The great tanker pilots I knew or still know all believed they were firefighters and the aircraft and pilot skills were their tools. The great lead plane pilots knew how to fight fire, knew how I flew and I trusted them. The best air attack officers knew how to fight fire, didn’t try to con you into unsafe drops, and knew when to call off air ops.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
If you don’t know what you are doing, find somebody who does know.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Getting people in the upper Fire & Aviation Management who recognize trees, smoke and aircraft. Few, now at the top, seem to meet these minimum qualifications.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
When working on a fire with tankers, be alert. Due to bad communications or misunderstood directions, you could get a drop when you least expect it.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
During 40 years flying tankers I was always learning. Since I got my first initial attack card with only around 900 hours total time I had a lot to learn.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
Nothing built in the last 20 years can equal the P-3. I would like to be proved wrong.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
B-17, B-26, C-119, DC-4, P2V, P-3. The P-3 is the best all-around tanker platform.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
This incident happened on standby in Silver City 20 years ago. No names will be mentioned to protect the guilty. Alongside the tool repair shop was a platform of plywood over pallets. There was a shade cover over the area. People sat on the platform finishing tool handles and painting the steel. You could also hear new lies, oops stories you hadn’t heard before, and you could get a free haircut. The problem that arose was caused by the local skunks that set up housekeeping in the pallets. The skunks were prolific and there were at least 2 dozen in residence. It was decided that it was time for eviction. So started “The Great Silver city Skunk Hunt.” The plan was to lift the north edge of the pallets with a fork lift and then unleash a 1-1/2” fire hose to flush out the striped enemy. Waiting on the south side was a group of variously armed hunters. This motley crew consisted of a proficient bow hunter with a quiver full of deadly arrows and a tall skinny guy who looked something like the rake with which he was armed. The others, fearing a scented charge, were armed from 22 cal to 357 mag. Things went as planned until the enemy returned fire. The man with the rake was holding his own in close combat and the target skunk was being fatally raked. The bow hunter took a direct hit from his opponent and dropped his bow while barfing in the bushes. The gun toters decided that long-range was prudent and their skunks got a good head start. The gunfire faded down the road and over the plains to the south. The hunt was an unqualified success. Few skunks were buried. However, the terrified remnant has taken up residence in northern Mexico and have not been seen again at the tanker base.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Approximately 8,800

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
Young Men and Fire

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
Co-pilot, B-17, Tanker-19, Redding, CA, 1969

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
When I started in the tankers there were no ATM’s. You carried a lot of cash and on long trips you tried to cash checks at local banks. The advent of bank cards and ATM’s ended the problem. The bank card – never leave home without it.

12 questions Bill Waldman

12 Questions for Gordon Harris

This is the sixth in a series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Gordon Harris. After being a smokejumper, his first job as an aerial firefighting pilot was flying Volpars on a Bureau of Land Management smokejumper aircraft contract in Alaska. After that he began flying the U.S. Forest Service Infrared aircraft and serving as a Relief Smokejumper Pilot. Later he became the Chief Pilot for Infrared Flight Operations and after that the National Aviation Officer for the USFS. He was also a member of the Smokejumper Aircraft Screening and Evaluation Board. When Gordon retired in 2007 from the U.S. Forest Service he was the National Smokejumper Program Manager and the Air Tactical Supervisors Coordinator.

In a later article Gordon will describe for us a harrowing incident in a smokejumper aircraft, a Shorts Sherpa, when it was descending flat at about 5,000 fpm with virtually no indicated airspeed.

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Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
Nels Jensen – One of the most totally “involved” leaders and enthusiastic people I’ve known with the advantage of being a highly skilled pilot and firefighter.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Do not let any perceived sense of “urgency or emergency” over-ride the facts of Safety, protocol, procedure and most of all – Common Sense. “Use your Checklist”.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Tough one! Safety is the standard answer probably, but I think effective use of resources is really foremost – on the ground side, when night ground firefighting was curtailed or greatly reduced, it seems to me that fires started getting bigger, more destructive and more dangerous. On the aerial side, the big safety push for grounding airtankers for airworthiness issues eliminated a lot of resources for the aerial aspect and as a result put immensely more pressure on the remaining resources. I’m not convinced these moves improved safety at all.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Don’t call for aerial resources if you don’t really need them – use them effectively if you do.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Just because a job pays better or looks like a great career move, does not necessarily mean it is the right job at the right time for you. Make sure you develop your career in a logical manner! Take things slow when moving up the career ladder.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
I do not have a well formed opinion on this, although I always thought the BAE-146 looked like a likely candidate and have not heard anything on how that project went. I also always thought the P3 was one of the best ones out there.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?

Beech Volpar Turboliner
King Air B200
Merlin II
Baron 58P
Cessna Citation
Sabreliner 80
Shorts Sherpa
Dehavilands Twin Otter
Caribou
DC-3
DC-3TP
Pilatus Turbo-Porter

Of the aircraft listed, I was pilot in command on the first 8 listed and was a smokejumper in the others (except DC3-TP which I flew as co-pilot and gave smokejumper captain check rides in)

My favorite to fly and “best tool for the job” are two different things. I loved flying the Volpar, Shorts Sherpa, Sabreliner and Merlin the most. Best tools are different – and there again, variations.

If I had to single out one airplane as “most suitable” for multi-missions, probably the Beechcraft King Air 200 for being “user friendly” and good performance.

Each airplane had its “best aspects” and “not so good” for different mission profiles, not really a one-size fits all. I could write more on each airplane and which specific mission profile I thought each was best at or why I like it/dislike it but I think that is probably outside the scope of this survey.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
Flying from Missoula to McCall one day in a Cessna 206, Nels Jensen and I could see an airtanker ahead of us flying very slow and doing S turns. We caught up with it, followed awhile, Nels recognized the plane and knew who was flying (not to mention names, he was the son of an Airtanker company owner). Finally Nels keyed the mic and said (calling the pilot by name), and so what do you think you’re doing, aren’t you suppose to “reload and return”, like today sometime? Maybe you should push the throttles up a little and fly a straight line! All the other pilot said was “oh damn, you are everywhere Nels”, and then bumped it up about 30 knots and managed to fly straight. He was “milking the Hobbs meter”.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
Rough estimate is 3,500-4,000 hours.

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?
Young Men and Fire

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
From 1969-1972, then first pilot job flying as aerial firefighter was flying a Volpar Turboliner on a smokejumper contract for BLM Alaska. That year (1980) I got to bring the first contingent of BLM Smokejumpers to Grand Junction, CO when they started developing the Great Basin Smokejumper Program. Became full-time USFS Infrared Pilot (Merlin II and King Air 200) and relief Smokejumper pilot (Twin Otter) in 1987 at Boise.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
GPS is sure nice.

12 questions

12 Questions for Hugh Carson

This is the sixth in our series of articles on FireAviation.com featuring aerial firefighters answering 12 questions about their profession. We hope to get participation from senior pilots, as well as Air Operations Branch Directors, Air Tactical Group Supervisors, and others that have worked closely with fire aviation. Our objective is to not only provide our readers with interesting articles, but these very experienced aerial firefighters may also reveal a few gems of information that could prove to be valuable to those considering or just beginning a career in fire aviation. If you have a suggestion of someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Today we hear from Hugh Carson, an Air Operations Branch Director. He served as the Bureau of Land Management’s State Aviation Manager for Utah and Nevada, later becoming the Aviation Training Developer for the BLM at the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise.

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Who is one of the more memorable aerial firefighters you have known? And why?
I’m with Walt Darran, it’s gotta’ be Don Ornbaum, whom I had as PIC for the Stead contract my first year as a State Aviation Manager for the BLM in Nevada. One of the smartest, crustiest, most humorous guys I’ve ever run into. I sure wish we’d followed up on that airtanker pilot oral history project – Don would have had a lead role, for sure. But Don also had a co-pilot named Wally Griffin, whom I hired the next year as the Nevada OV-10 pilot ‘til he absconded north to be the AFS Aviation Manager.

One piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment working on a fire?
Review situation awareness cues and LCES. It all comes down to that in staying alive.

Besides the obvious (funding), what is the number one thing government Fire and Aviation should focus on?
Being open to “new” technology and platforms that, outside of the feds, are becoming ubiquitous. I would put Unstaffed Aerial Vehicles at the head of this list, followed by the use of the CL-415 as a primary airtanker. And we should not spend 5 years studying aircraft and systems whose use is a no-brainer. If the feds don’t understand the train is leaving the station, the states and municipalities will leave the feds in the dust.

One suggestion you have for ground-based firefighters about fire suppression tactics, or working with aircraft?
Fire suppression: Measured, slow, and aware. Aircraft: Get with the helitackers and ATGS/ASMs early, one on one. Ask questions, do some what ifs. The more ground folks understand aviation, the less friction we have, and the easier it is to develop synergy.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
Active listening.

Which two aircraft manufactured within the last 20 years would make the best air tankers?
CL-415, and an un-built one for which we should have obtained funding 20 years ago. An airtanker specifically built for the environment. Still a dream.

List the aircraft you have flown, or flown in, on fires. Which is your favorite, and why?
Lama [helicopter]. Power.

The funniest thing you have seen in aerial firefighting?
This not something I saw, but rather something that happened. Happy Camp, ’87. Team is anticipating aerial firing with PSD potassium permanganate ping pong balls. Carson orders 30,000 PSD Unit on Equipment order but the balls have to go on a Supply Order. Despite specific cross-referencing of the orders, sure enough, 2 days later someone said that a Ryder truck was outside with my ping pong balls. The driver opens the back gate and . . . and . . . there they were. 30,000 regular ping pong balls, though minus paddles and tables. The buzz on this had pretty much calmed down, but this should give it some more legs.

How many hours have you spent in firefighting aircraft?
1000

Your favorite book about fire, firefighting, or aerial firefighting?

Young Men and Fire, John N. Maclean
The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes – and Why, Amanda Ripley

The first job you had in aerial firefighting?
AD-1 Helitack Crewmember, 1970, Glenallen, AK.

What gadgets, electronic or other type, can’t you live without?
Since I’m a DJ on community radio, it’s my 2 Tb External Drive with 28,000 songs on it.

12 questions

12 Questions for Edy Rhodes

Today we have the ninth article of our series in which we ask current and retired leaders in the wildland fire service to answer 12 questions.

We appreciate everyone who is cooperating with this project. Some of their responses may add to the knowledge base of our new firefighters coming up through the ranks. If you would like to nominate someone who would be a good candidate for these questions, drop us a line through our Contact Us page. And their contact information would be appreciated.

Below we hear from Edy Rhodes, a former Area Commander. She worked for the U. S. Forest Service for 25 years before transferring to the National Park Service, retiring as their Division Chief of Fire, Aviation and Structural Fire.

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When you think of an excellent leader in the fire service, who comes to mind first?
Too many to mention, but here are a few:

Steve Pedigo, Dick Cox, Rex Mann, and Bobby Kitchens who promoted incident management teams in the South resulting in involvement in the national Type 1 rotation.
Rick Gale and Mike Edrington, in their roles Fire Directors, as Area Commanders and as leaders of the 520/620 Steering Committee and cadre. They mentored countless individuals in their careers over the years.
Also, the Forestry Technicians who taught me the basics and kept me safe while giving me room to make mistakes during my early career years. Junior Gay, Daniel Boone NF and Bruce Harvey, NF’s in FL, come to mind!

What is one piece of advice you would give to someone before their first assignment as an Incident Commander?
In general, “Before you get on the horse, be ready to ride!” Specific to large incident management, provide strategic leadership and all it entails from being proactive, confident, decisive and a good communicator with your team and all stakeholders involved.

Edy Rhodes

If someone is planning a prescribed fire, what is one thing that you hope they will pay particular attention to?
An approved plan, appropriate weather conditions, adequate resources, and good communication by all.

One of the more common errors in judgment you have seen on fires?
Assuming that everyone is on the same page; Failing to “connect the dots” and “close the loop” with those that need critical information that may affect them.

One thing that you know now that you wish you had known early in your career?
What a rewarding career that fire management would be! The opportunities to travel, see remarkable places, and work with extraordinary people has enriched my life tremendously.

The stupidest mistake you have seen on a fire?
It was on a RX burn, when the fire jumped the line on our section, setting off a huge, grassy field next to the municipal sewage treatment plant, which was adjacent to the regional airport. Thank goodness, we were able to get the treatment plant personnel to turn on the effluent sprinklers, which extinguished the fire, before the smoke completely shut down airport operations. We got a lot of phone calls on that one!

Your most memorable fire?
The Yellowstone Fires of 1988.

The funniest thing you have seen on a fire?
A couple of mules got loose from their pack string and went bucking down the mountain scattering their load everywhere!

The first very large fire you were on?
The Hog Fire, Klamath NF, 1977.

Your favorite book about fire or firefighting?
Young Men and Fire

The first job you had within the fire service?
Forester Trainee and firefighter on a local crew on the Daniel Boone National Forest, KY.

What gadgets, electronic or otherwise, can’t you live without?
Laptop, iPhone and iPad. Love my Google maps!

12 questions area command Edy Rhodes Rick Gale