Closed door wildfire forum about suicide subdivisions and undeveloped WUI

House saved from fire in central Oregon
House saved in central Oregon. USFS photo.

Last month a group of 20 wildfire experts met behind closed doors in Jackson, Wyoming to discuss methods for protecting communities from wildland fires. The meeting was closed to the public and reporters so that the participants could present ideas that are likely to be met with opposition in western areas where property rights at times trump attempts to impose regulations that would protect homes.

The “84 percent” of land in the Wildland Urban Interface (WUI) that is not yet developed received much of the attention at the forum. The attendees realized that efforts directed toward future construction could have a more profound effect than trying to make changes to existing structures.

The topics discussed included:

  • Fire risk mapping and mandatory notice.
  • Development plans that include standardized wildfire risk ratings.
  • Federal assistance based on fire-risk planning.
  • Denial of loans for houses in high-risk wildfire zones.
  • Putting the costs on local communities.
  • Full-cost accounting of wildfires.
  • Tiered homeowner insurance rates.
  • Standardized, robust data collection.

Below are some excerpts from an article in High Country News about the meeting:

“There’s this invisible line you’re not allowed to cross,” said the forum’s organizer, Ray Rasker, director of Headwaters Economics, an independent research group focused on Western land management. “If you start talking about restricting private property rights, that’s sort of a career-ending conversation you’re having.”

[…]

Kathy Clay, Teton County, Wyo.’s outspoken fire marshal, acknowledges that she attended the forum, where she was popular for her discussion of “suicide subdivisions” – neighborhoods where firefighters have only one way in, no access to water or aerial support, and no way out if the fire spreads behind them. Clay wants the blunt phrase to draw attention to the rising human costs of wildfire.

“Firefighters have an obligation to defend structures, but we don’t have an obligation to put people in harm’s way,” Clay said in an interview.

Typos, let us know HERE, and specify which article. Please read the commenting rules before you post a comment.

Author: Bill Gabbert

After working full time in wildland fire for 33 years, he continues to learn, and strives to be a Student of Fire.

8 thoughts on “Closed door wildfire forum about suicide subdivisions and undeveloped WUI”

  1. Thanks for summing up and linking to the article, Bill. I’m the author, and I’m continuing to research the topic for future stories. If any of you wildland firefighters or WUI homeowners out there want to share your stories and experiences with “suicide subdivisions”, feel free to send me an email: christiturner@hcn.org. Thanks!

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  2. This is a fascinating, to me at least, example of how people don’t process the risk of rare, but catastrophic, events well. And, of course, like free lunches. I can think of a few areas where every year there are local news articles talking about what a risk the area presents…and still no change. The Carpenter 1 fire down on Mt. Charleston, as one example, was a case where the road being cut was a real risk, the community there has huge work to do in terms of both building materials and defensible space, the issues are openly talked , and have been for years…and no change. And very little snow this year.

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  3. Personal note…
    One of my perspectives is from owning a cabin on a few acres in a WUI borderline “suicide subdivision”. It has only one entrance (a primitive “rear exit” might be possible with tribal and state cooperation), but does have turn-arounds, meadows suitable for helicopter ops with water near, and a VFD that works well with other volunteer departments, state forestry, and forest folks.
    Our country fire marshal rates us as a “67” moderate hazard on a 100-pt. scale, with a hard-core “suicide subdivision” ten miles away getting an 81 and several in the 70s. The “81” is in a box canyon with a single entry aligned with prevailing winds and horrific tree density, including trees leaning against and over homes and growing through carports–you get the idea. Funny thing is I know an insurance agent with a place there. Sigh.
    One project for me now is making the cabin more defensible in line with Firewise guidance and advice of fire folks. I’ve taken out some trees whose canopies were touching other trees, trimmed others, and enlarged the cleared area around the cabin. This spring I’ll add more gravel near the cabin and enlarge the turn-around in our driveway so it can handle large engines. Eventually, the fiberglass shingle roof will be replaced with a metal roof. Nothing is for sure in a big fire, but the goal is for the cabin to be one that an engine crew or other resource thinks they have a shot to defend without undue risk, and maybe even be a structure that can mostly defend itself.
    In a modest way, I see this as a way of honoring the GMH and all fire fighters and emergency responders; most of the members of the crew my son has been on had met and worked with them and he and his crew participated in one of the funerals, so the tragedy hit fairly close to home.

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  4. The fire weather is not in your favor while you are responding to a wildfire with structure threat, you can see the black building smoke. As you turn off the main paved road you now have to drive down hill over a mile (you think) on a narrow winding dirt road with ten foot brush on either side and timber obscuring your view of the smoke. There is no place to turn around yet, you keep going. No air attack available closest air tanker on day off. Wind starts to increase, your driving too fast hoping to get to the fires edge or find a place to turn around, if you have to. How many times have we done this and got away with it? I like suicide subdivision however every day some where wild land fire fighters are attempting to protect these SUICIDE STRUCTURES. Know your area and those structures that in the back of your mind say, forget it. The home owner didn’t help us (fire fighters) why should we risk our lives. Don’t be a moth to a candle.

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    1. Johnny Coldwater → “you can see the black building smoke if you have to.”

      That’s what a guy could call a “spine chiller description”, Johnny.

      Nice job…

      OCR

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      1. Lol… well, that should have read:
        Johnny Coldwater →… “you can see the black building smoke (snip)…. if you have to.”

        OCR

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  5. You just gotta love Fire Marshall Clay’s term “the suicide subdivisions”. Several year ago, a Colorado journalist named Ed Quillen coined the phrase “the Stupid Zone” for homes built in the floodplain, on earthquake faults, and yes, in the WUI. Bottom line for firefighters: your stupidity is not a reason for me to die!”

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    1. My Dad used to call those places “temporary housing”. There were subdivisions and even whole towns he would not go to in El Dorado county during fire season for any reason except an Initial Attack assignment.

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